Budget Failed!
281 No Votes
218 Yes Votes
Budget Failed.
The Board of Finance will go back to work.
An exit poll was taken.
65 People handed their ballots in prior to the motion to vote.
They were split 26 Yes and 39 No. They would have made no difference.
I’ll post the exit poll results as soon as I get them. Who has them?
Can anyone offer a play-by-play of the town meeting? I am out of town.
I’m new to Marlborough, and I have to say, I didn’t expect civic matters to be this lively. Are budget votes always this contentious?
@Sturbridge
3 years ago 30 citizens decided our budget. About time folks wizened up.
I was pretty appalled by Mr. Black’s clear political agenda as moderator. Residents were still raising their hands to make comments when Black motioned to close comments and, of course, someone screamed out seconding the motion. We wouldn’t want the taxpayers to hear something that Bill wouldn’t like, would we? Cathy Gaudinski, for example, had her hand raised in the very first row, while Bill chose to ignore her, motioning to close comments on the budget. New residents of just one year, sitting right next to me, had plenty of questions with their hands raised, and were equally ignored. Matter of fact, several people had their hands raised. I guess we need to budget in some spectacles for Mr. Black.
Verbally voting on motions brings into question the validity of those voting. For example, my own mother, who lives in Hartford, attended the meeting and was vocal (against my urging) when motions were presented for verbal voting. What on Earth gives her the right to voice her approval / disapproval on any motion in a Marlborough meeting? How many other spectators were allowed to do this?
The verbal motions should have been carried or not, by hands with purple paper ballots in them.
I felt the budget comparison should have compared actual dollars spent last year, to proposed dollars that year. It would have more accurately represented the 1.97% increase we were asking to give the BOE, over their actual spending last year. Mr. Black claiming that the BOE was taking a -1.87% cut was absurd, when you look at the real dollars spent.
Compare the actual spending by the BOE last year of $6,860,761, to the budgeted amount for the BOE this year of $6,996,117, and you will clearly see the BOE was not asked to take a cut over what they spent last year.
$6,860,761 x 1.019726091609954 = $6,996,096 (the closest my calculator will calculate.)
These numbers were provided by the BOE. That’s a 1.97% increase. Period.
And, here’s a recommendation, Town of Marlborough, to save some money on the next vote. Use BOTH sides of the paper in your handouts, and just paint over the existing sign in the middle of town with a new date. If you do, you just may be able to cut down on some of those supplies and advertising line items.
All of that being said, I am glad the townspeople clearly spoke out to their servant government, by defeating this budget. It’s time to sharpen your pencils, BOF, so get to work!
Those 65 ballots that were handed in before the motion… my son and I were 2 of those ballots… we were told at the check in table to hand them in after the motion… after standing in line at the ballot receiving table, we were told it was ok to vote then. I asked twice, are you sure its ok… the reply was yes… Mr. Black told me to do it this way. So here you go again … misinformation/miscommunication… or whatever you want to call it. And the massive amount of paper could be eliminated all together with a power point presentation. And if the present sign isn’t repainted with the new date, and a new sign is order, I personally will start a huge email attack against waste… BTW… I have quite a bit of poster type paper here… if anyone wants it for signs.
Excellent point, Karen, and you bring up a very good question on Mr. Black’s ethics. I forgot the bit about the ballots handed in before the meeting officially started. Black specifically stated that problem with those votes was that the meeting hadn’t started yet, so they’d wait and see how the vote turned out, before deciding to count them or not! How ludicrous!
As a matter of fact, BOF Chairperson Catherine Gaudinski was attempting to bring up this question during the comments that Black abruptly motioned to close.
Well Pasquale here is your chance to support education and decrease taxes…can you do it? I certainly hope so b/c that is exactly what you have been going on and on and on and on about for the last 2 months…get to work and find a way to NOT cut services to our school, decrease taxes and still be fiscally responsible in allowing our town to pay their debt.
I attended this meeting and have attended meetings in the towns I’ve lived in (several states, multiple cities & towns) over the years. I have to say that what happened tonight was beyond pathetic. And, evidently, it was a vast improvement over the last budget meeting.
The “moderator” forgot to initially elect himself until someone at the front table told him. Motions were announced, people couldn’t hear and then didn’t know on what they were voting.
Hand outs were clearly biased towards passage of the budget. The entire sewer debacle was glossed and there was not one bit of info regarding the road bond. I guess that part doesn’t matter since we never got that far.
The very few who were given a chance to speak were not asked to step to the microphone, provide their name and address as is usually done, but to just speak from wherever and hope that everyone heard them. Legitmate questions, concerns or opinions were stifled with a hasty motion to close the comments.
Additionally, David is right. Anyone in the room was allowed to vocally vote on the motion. There were several Daisy Scouts as well as older kids in the room. Did they vote? Who knows? It doesn’t really matter since Mr. Black decided which way the vote went. PTS meetings are conducted more professionally than this.
The budget failed again with an even wider margin than last time, it’s pretty clear that the townspeople have had enough. We must have fiscal responsibility during these difficult times. I would hope that all the comments on both the ballots and the exit polls will be available for public viewing. My guess is that they will never see the light of day.
I will be at the next meeting and the next and the next until we have a open and fair discussion of a viable budget that has a chance of passing.
I also want to mention that there were no ballots for the road bond issue. Does that mean that it would have been done by a show of hands or a vocal yay/nay? Who would want to authorize spending 1.5 million dollars based on anyone in the room’s ability to shout louder than another? Apparently Mr. Black. It boggles the mind.
TOTN:
You clearly have an axe to grind with Mr. Amodeo — why don’t you speak to him personally (he has made himself available to me and many town residents) and take it up with him rather than attack him in each posting on this site.
I don’t quite understand some of your logic. You say that he hasn’t been at meetings in the past but your blame him for the mess in the town’s finances. Seems pretty tough for you to have it both ways, i.e. complain that he wasn’t around and criticize him for decisions that were made in his absence. Is this more of the same politics we have seen in the past directed at Mrs. Gaudinski, only now you have another target?
None of this will get the town a budget.
I was confused by the manner in which Bill Black conducted the meeting. Two of the points were:
1. When Cathi Gaudinski asked about whether or not the ballots which were turned in early would be counted, Bill never voiced a ruling on that matter, but rather let them be counted separately. In my mind these would be similar to absentee ballots, which I thought were not allowed at a Town Meeting. What was Bill’s intention? If the vote had been close, say it failed by 3 votes, and the early ballots favored the budget by say 5 votes, would Bill have then allowed them to be counted? Leaving the question unanswered made me feel that Bill was waiting to see how the vote turned out.
2. Bill was also not clear about whether or not he planned on using the paper ballots. We did not know if we had to interject a motion to that effect or if he was going to call for their use. This also left people wondering how the vote was going to be taken. When I asked that the motion be amended to use paper ballots and then again when Ed Bader spoke on behalf of using them, we still did not get a clarification from Bill. It would have been so easy for him simply to answer, YES, he would be using the ballots.
All in all, another poorly moderated meeting. Those who helped to prepare the check-in process and the ballots did a good job, but then Bill dropped the ball by handling things in a confusing manner. Perhaps next time we need a different moderator. Any takers?
PS: Bill once again “forgot” to remind people to turn in their exit polls until after the meeting when many had left already. He closed the meeting and people started leaving and milling about. I myself was looking for the place to deposit them. Only then did he announce that they were collecting the exit polls. Also, what prevented people from filling out 2, 3 or 10 exit polls? Nothing! There were a ton of them laying around when people started leaving.
The last time I saw anything like this was a decade ago when the RHAM budget went to 13 referendums. Hopefully it won’t take 13 Town Meetings to come up with a passage of our town budget!@Sturbridge
@Ken Hjulstrom
Apparently Mr. Black is not an impartial moderator. And how can he be since he benefits directly, i.e., his raise, from a budget passage. Lots of grumbling last night about the “hidden agenda” and “whats he got up his sleeve” from where I was sitting. If someone would like to moderate the next meeting, please, let it be known so a motion can be brought and voted on. Mr. Black assumed that he was to be the Grand Marshal at the meeting and that is how it ended up…
@TOTN
TOTN:
Can you write a position post?
I’ll post it.
Lay out the issues as you see them.
Try to avoid names.
Generally speaking anyone can email in their thoughts for posting.
As editor I’ll post them if they are clear and to the point and pithy.
Try to stick to issues.
@Cut the Budget
I’d have to say at this point, Mr Amodeo represents the feelings and the will of this town.
The vote proved that.
The people have spoken and I for one can’t wait to read Bill’s blurb in RE this Friday. Probably something like this. ” The voters made it clear Monday night that the proposed cuts to the education budget are too deep and until that money is restored, this budget will not be approved. It was overwhelmingly clear that higher property taxes, raises for all teachers and town staff, extension of dental benefits to non employees and the petty objections to some slight numerical differences in the BOE numbers had nothing to do with the rejection of this budget.” Last night’s meeting was nothing short of a bad joke. He should have been thrown off stage. The invalidation of those ballots was appalling.
I would like to pass along a clarification regarding these 65 ballots. According to Town Clerk Nancy Dickson, these ballots were included in the final count of Yes-218 to No-281. Without the 65 ballots, the vote would have been Yes-192 to No-242.
That’s very interesting because Mr. Black did not indicate that at all. He gave the yay and nay vote count, then gave the count for the 65 ballots. He then stated, “they didn’t make any difference.” leaving the impression with just about everyone that they were not included in the tally.
Why was it necessary to state it that way? If you counted them, simply say so. Of course, he’d have to say why they were counted in the total. When the question of those ballots was first raised, Mr. Black stated that they should be invalid because they were cast before the meeting was called to order and therefore exactly what those people were voting for or against had not been finalized.
I don’t understand why Mr. Black continues to disseminate misinformation, treat his constituents as if they are irrelevant and ignore the will of the people. I just can’t figure it out!
I agree. That is the way I heard it. The way he presented the results I took it to mean that the numbers (281 to 218) did not include the ballots which were collected early. I am glad that I was not the only person who took it that way.
@David Durel
I need to post a clarification / correction. I made an error in my BOE comparison – sort of.
While I am technically correct by using the word “last year”, this is not what I meant to analyze. The problem is, actual spending for 2008 – 2009 is not likely not known yet, and is not listed on the budget paperwork handed out last night.
The actual spending for 2007 – 2008 equals $6,860,761. The defeated budget represented a 1.97% increase over the 2007 – 2008 expended amount, not the 2008 – 2009 unknown expended amount.
If that figure is available (yet) and anyone has it, please post it here. My apologies for the unintentional (although not technically an) error.
Are you kidding—now people think kindergarteners are voting??? This has really gone too far.
I believe you may have missed the point. The point was that since only people with ballots would be allowed to vote on the budget, then only those same people should have been allowed to vote on motions pertaining to the budget vote. Since the motion vote was done vocally, there’s no real way to know how that could be ensured.
@Roberta
My daughter was one of those Daisies. She can be quite loud.
(It’s first grade)
I thought it was kinda neat for her seeing the process.
I’ve always brought my kids into the voting booth.
Cut the Budget:
I do not have an ax to grind with Amodeo only—I have an ax to grind with anyone who wants the town services cut to pay for debt that we (the town) has already voted for and taken on.
I think you need to go back and reread what I wrote….I do not blame Amodeo for the mess our town is in b/c he did not attend enough meetings to make a difference (fact: check his attendance record). What I stated was I believe it is very difficult for someone to boast about being elected on the heels of a 0% tax increase when we have already taken on the debt. Maybe if he had devoted as much time to the past meetings as he has over the last few months then things would be different. I think it is very unnerving for someone to come in to the game at this point and start a crusade (which I believe Amodeo and other BOF members have done). I can certainly say the same to most of the people on this blog ( have an ax to grind) with the BOE members. So I am not sure how my statements are any different than anyone else’s except that I seem to be one of very few who post here that have a different point of view.
Editor: Here is my official position:
All I keep hearing on this blog is that we have to stop the spending…I can certainly agree with that but what I am not hearing is that 3.1% of this budget has already been spent….we voted on the projects and no matter how things have turned out it is our responsiblity to pay. Only .55% of this years budget is actual spending. I am sure that no one expected the economy to be what it is but that is the chance we all take when we accumulate debt. It is unbelievable to me that this town wants any organization to pay for our debt….not the schools, the troopers, the senior center…no one…If we want to curb our spending from this day forward then I am all for it but I can not accept anyone having to cut services to pay for money that we already spent. It is fiscally irresponsible and I unconscionable. I believe that we can certainly find a way to help those people who are going through a difficult time financially. If they do not qualify for the tax relief that is already in place than I am sure we can come up with a way to help families that may be struggling but that is not to say that the rest of the citizens should not pay what we owe.
Also, I do not appreciate being asked to state a position and avoid using names when all I read on this blog is people bashing Bill Black, other members of the BOF (Petroni, Craig, etc.) and bashing the members of the BOE even if they don’t name names.
@Cut the Budget
@Reality Check??
The words were:
No one ever said, or would offer the ridiculous notion, that children were allowed to vote on the budget.
@TOTN
So, expecting the town government to operate frugally, to offset some of the debt they had (and continue to have) a large part in creating through (intentionally?) poor communication with the townspeople, is illogical in your opinion?
I disagree.
When a government is allowed to run itself the way this town’s has, people will eventually demand that it stop. That is what you’re seeing now, and expecting them to share the expense of their bad decisions is every taxpayer’s right.
Consider a sewer project, sold to the people with an example cost of only $77 annually, to protect a lake which is described as having exceptional water quality and being one of the cleanest in the state, when actual costs will be over $1,000 annually to district residents, and at least .5 mills on all of our assessments. You don’t think the Town should cough up a little money to help offset that fiasco?
How about more debt the town wants to put on us, to repair the roads for the aforementioned sewer project. That $1.9 million bond (if approved) payment will go right on all of our taxes as well. Why did the WPCA keep spending and spending and spending, until the Town now needs another loan to fix the roads. You find that kind of management responsible?
I’m not well informed on the business park, so I won’t make much of it. The little I know is that the town has purchased large areas of land for a purported business park, which has no businesses, and will never have any sewer. I don’t find that particularly responsible either, do you?
Yes, we have to pay the debt. The government which brought these grandiose ideas and resulting mismanaged projects to the people should also assist us in paying for them.
@TOTN
Actually, you did exactly that, right here:
Mr. Amodeo was away on business at times during the earlier portion of his term, but his attendance has been quite good the last year or two. I am not sure why this is being made an issue unless there is some political motivation. Hmmmm???
@TOTN By the way, the school and sewer projects were approved before Mr. Amodeo was even elected to the BOF. The same goes for most, if not all, of the current members of the BOF. Besides, the BOF does not put together estimates for projects, which in the case of the sewers was done by the Board of Selectmen with input from the Town Planner and hired firms. In regards to the sewers, as I previously stated, the WPCA did not even exist when the project was put forth and the WPCA was not formed until a year or two after the project was approved. Again, the BOS and Town Planner took the lead for the sewer project.
For the school projects the Boards of Education (local and RHAM) took the lead. In the case of Marlborough Elementary, the task to carry out the project was then handed off to a Public Building Commission which was appointed by the Board of Selectmen.
So when it comes right down to it, the Board of Finance has very little control over how these projects get budgeted or managed. But they have to deal with the outcome and the effect. Under Cathi Gaudinski’s leadership we finally have a BOF which is asking the tough questions and which is holding the Town Government responsible for the budgets they put together. The days of “rubber stamping” are gone!
@David Durel This is why it is critical that people ask questions up front when the Town is proposing projects or is spending our tax dollars on capital items. The voters approved the sewers. The Town can’t spend a dime if the public says NO. But it was approved and once the project is started the public looses sight, and control, of what is going on.
I don’t hear anyone asking how the BOS came up with the figure of $1.59 million for road repair? Is it based on a linear foot estimate? Does it take into account fluctuating asphalt costs? What roads are included? What are we getting for our $1.59 million? Until we get a clear and thorough answer we should not sign a blank check.
Same goes for the line item presented at the Town Meeting where we are being asked to blindly approve the aceptance of “free” stimulous and grant money provided “no corresponding funding obligation in excess of $2,000 on behalf of the Town is needed.” What are we opening ourselves up to here? Projects that will consume manhours of Town staff to implement them and which will have ongoing maintanence costs down the road? Who knows what types of strings and future costs might be associated with these stimulous projects? Yet we are being asked to give blanket approval! One example of this is the bus stop at Exit 12. I understand that the Building Department will need to oversee the project. Will police supervision and traffic control be covered under the budget? What about the future cost to remove snow from the sidewalks? There is cost associated with these projects. NOTHING IS FREE!
@Ken Hjulstrom
Agreed on all your excellent points, Ken.
Regarding the sewer, unfortunately, I was not a resident when this was up for vote 7 long years ago. If I had been, I would have been raising all the issues I am raising now. Add that to the fact that this town DID circulate paperwork over a year ago telling people that connection was not mandatory — but has been 100% uncooperative in providing that paperwork again. All my neighbors and I read it, and tossed it because it said connection was optional. (BTW, if anyone has this document, please let me know via a post here or on my site.) Current WPCA draft regulations clearly indicate connection is not optional. (I’m not pushing my site – but the regs are there if anyone wants to download them.)
Is my battle pointless? Maybe. But, I’m not done yet, and I’m not flailing around out here, like that clown I put up on my property. I do have a plan.
Anyway, again, great points and we should question what the town is planning on doing with this money they want us to approve now.
@David Durel Yes, the Town has flip flopped over and over again about whether or not connection would be mandatory. A lot of this confusion comes from the Town Planner who has been used over the years as the point man for most large projects. Policy, when it comes to large projects, is a moving target. That is why I am so skeptical when it comes to claims of “free money” and more bonding for road repairs. In past years plans for road repairs have started off specific and then as things moved forward the targeted roads changed, others were delayed and in the end we had no idea of what we got for our money. we need better budgeting and planning and accountability regarding the outcome.
I will use the bus stop again as an example. In the beginning the project was budgeted at $350,000. Then the number was revised to $496,000 to account for using the DOT’s costs for materials and labor. Was the $350,000 a reasonable number? If not, then where did it come from? If inflating the number by over 40% was needed to use the DOT’s numbers, then are the DOT’s numbers reasonable or just overly conservative? Both numbers can’t be right, can they????
So did my kids when they were little. I appreciate you offering them a chance to see the process. I was just commenting on the verbal voting process. @Editor
Since the BOS seems incapable of running an exit poll.
I think the BOF needs to take matters into their own hands.
When we go to vote again, the BOF should consider running a real exit poll at the exits. I’d be happy to man a door.
We could compile the results in the open that night.
Getting only some 200 exit polls when over 500 people voted is ….trying to think of the right word…..oh I’ll be nice…. a shame.
How do you know that only 200 exit polls were recieved? Where can we see the results?
TOTN:
You have so many misguided points and I have so little time to address them. I will hit the high points.
1. Do you agree with Mr. Amodeo or disagree with him? Do you just want to smear him? You say that he wasn’t around when critical decisions were made and these decisions created a financial “mess.” Does that mean you wish he had participated because he would have made better decisions and avoided the mess? If you answer “no” to this question, doesn’t this mean your preferred members of the BOF (my guess is Petroni) voted and she created the “mess”? Either way, I don’t understand your point. If you want to smear the guy, just do it and show your intent by stating that you don’t like him.
2. You say the “town” voted for the debt, so why attribute the financial mess to Amodeo’s absence or participation – whatever you are trying to say.
3. What crusade is the BOF on? Members of the BOF are reducing the budget to reflect the sentiment of the majority of the town that tax increases are too high. Isn’t that what elected officials in a representative democracy are supposed to do? Or are these officials only supposed to respond to smear tactics? Perhaps you should shift your focus regarding crusades to the BOE – these upstanding elected officials encouraged the town to vote down a $20m budget over a $20-40K difference in their own $7m budget. Are you kidding me? Who is on a crusade?
4. Your statement about a 0% increase is impossible to address. Who is “boasting” about a 0% increase – I have never heard anybody say that was a goal. Who got elected – Amodeo? I don’t even know what platform he ran on but I approve of his efforts today.
5. Your posting is different from other bloggers on this site because you have a thinly-veiled political agenda and your points have no foundation in logic or fact. I encourage your participation but if your agenda is to simply conduct personal attacks, you should do so under your own name and expose yourself to scrutiny.
@TOTN
@Roberta
Email from the BOF Chairperson.
They will have them or the results at the BOF meeting tonight, Wednesday.
Thank you.
To the BOF’s credit on May 11th they had trimmed $256,000 from the BOE’s original budget and additional money from the municipal budget and capital items. Just think what the budget would be like if they had not taken a hard look at it and called for those reductions. I know I will sound political, but the Democrat BOF members (Beth and Lauren in particular) fought those reductions tooth and nail as did their party’s chairman. It is documented in the meeting minutes and in their Rivereast letters.
Cut the Budget:
Thanks for the support. Please ignore TOTN. This is the kind of divisive politics that have gotten us where we are. I am comfortable with my record.
PA
Exactly….maybe if he would have done what he was elected to do we would be in better shape…you can’t come in after the mess has been made and set a crusade to fix it no matter who gets cut in the process. He was absent for 3/4 of the meetings…and now has an opinion. I’m not sure that’s how it works. @David Durel
Exactly….maybe if he would have done what he was elected to do we would be in better shape…you can’t come in after the mess has been made and set a crusade to fix it no matter who gets cut in the process. He was absent for 3/4 of the meetings…and now has an opinion. I’m not sure that’s how it works. @David Durel
@Pasquale Amodeo
Pasquale
If you are comfortable with your record, I wish you would post it on this blog. Also, I think it is amazing that you state that my comments are making this town divided…I have read every letter you have sent to the RE and the tone that you put forth has made this process a political one instead of considering what is best for ALL the citizens of this town.
I would also appreciate if you do not ask people to ignore me…I have a right to state my opinions even though this blog seems to be only a select few who all feel the same way and continually encourage the same rhetoric. @Pasquale Amodeo
A quote from Roberta: “David is right. Anyone in the room was allowed to vocally vote on the motion. There were several Daisy Scouts as well as older kids in the room. Did they vote? Who knows?”
David–I was referring to this post and it clearly questions whether Daisy Scouts were allowed to vote? Of course, I agree with you it is a ridiculous notion, but it was thrown out there…
@David Durel
TOTN — I would be happy to address you if you come out of hiding.
TOTN:
It’s easy to throw stones when hiding behind an alias. You’re correct all my letters to the RE were signed by me. Now sign your posts — what do you have to hide?
I was speaking about the motion to end discussion on the budget. Since the discussion motion was done by a voice vote, anyone in the room, Daisy Scouts, non-residents, non-property owners could yell out yay or nay. I did not say the vote on the actual budget. So unless I got it wrong, I stand by what I said.
What Bill should have done is ask those in favor of closing discussion to raise their purple ballots. That would have provided a proper count. If it was close they could have counted the raised hands. If it was a wide margin then a count would not have been needed.
Absolutely!
You are misunderstanding the post. It has nothing to do with anybody voting on the budget. The first sentence of the paragraph starts with the qualification for the rest of the statement:
Nobody is talking about kids or spectators voting on the budget. We are talking about anyone in the room who can make a sound with their vocal chords, having the ability to vote on motions – such as the one to close the public comments. There is no logical argument to this statement, save all the spectators were mute.
Roberta further clarified what she was talking about here:
Obviously, Black did not decide the outcome of the paper ballot budget vote. He very much did rule on the motion for closing public comments.
So, again. Nobody is saying the children or anywhere else voted on the budget.
I also submitted that voice voting on motions should be removed and replaced with a show of hands containing ballots. This provides a better method of ensuring who is voting on those motions.